Business Ethics

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Re: Business Ethics

Postby kakyo001 » November 6th, 2012, 5:08 am

Trishbot wrote:I can promise that there are several more surprises and twists in this story coming. Is the cover accurate? Symbolic? Or am I leading everyone on?

I guess you'll just have to see...

up until now your cover-work has never been completely misleadig thus I expect her to become a victim of the nano leash ... and there lies my problem ^^

the concept of the nano leash (from my point of view) is a death sentence... the mind of the victim is changed into a program and left in APEX's care (and we know that they'll never temper with it *wink*) and the physical body is left as a husk under full control of APEX's main computer... the nano leash can't be removed as easily as a collar (if at all) and the mind probly won't be able to take control of the body again (if the mind is left in a state that allows it to return to its original state)

(even after years of reading comics I still hate to see characters getting killed off... ^^; )
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Re: Business Ethics

Postby Trishbot » November 6th, 2012, 9:01 am

kakyo001 wrote:up until now your cover-work has never been completely misleadig thus I expect her to become a victim of the nano leash ... and there lies my problem ^^

the concept of the nano leash (from my point of view) is a death sentence... the mind of the victim is changed into a program and left in APEX's care (and we know that they'll never temper with it *wink*) and the physical body is left as a husk under full control of APEX's main computer... the nano leash can't be removed as easily as a collar (if at all) and the mind probly won't be able to take control of the body again (if the mind is left in a state that allows it to return to its original state)

(even after years of reading comics I still hate to see characters getting killed off... ^^; )


I don't know. Sometimes characters "evolve" in unexpected ways. For example, Ginger Monroe is no longer Jane Baker. Her old identity is gone, yet you would be hard-pressed to say that Ginger isn't an interesting and unique and involving character in her own right. Similarly, you could very well claim characters like Mechana, Fluffy, and Lady Payback are "dead" because all of them have either been brainwashed or evolved in ways that are entirely different than their starting personalities.

However, beyond that, I and many of the other creators have this philosophy: "nothing is permanent". There is a loophole to every plan, a flaw in every design, and a way out of any issue. We spend too much time making characters we like to just toss them away, and if we truly want to "free" a heroine, there is nothing that can stop us. On the inverse, if we like them where they are for the time being, we leave them there.

I won't spoil Andrea's fate, but I'll merely say that I am FAR FAR FAR from done exploring her personality, her relationships, her loves and desires, and her plans for the future. She's got plenty of character development left in this story and future stories.

There's still a few more issues left to this tale, and what you might think is "the end" in an issue or two is actually not quite the ending. It's not until I say it is, at least. Andrea and Max's little game of outwitting each other hasn't wrapped up yet, but I can promise that both of them are going to be affected by the end.
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Re: Business Ethics

Postby Hector2 » November 9th, 2012, 11:29 pm

Dear Trishbot:

Business Ethics # 5 is not only a great comic, but my favorite so far: It has exactly the things I love about comics.

First, Andrea showing she is Azure Avenger to Max. Now I feel a little confused: Why Azure Avenger, a superheroine far more famous – and cunning – than any other Metrobay heroine – they are local – would show her secret identity to Max?

I could only explain that as a terrible case of hubris from Azure Avenger. After all, Max is a snake, but is a true supervillain. Then again, Andrea was sure she had covered all the bases.

Then the characterization: Max doesn’t disappoint us and shows again as a psychopathic manchild who not only considers all a game, but one that he has to win every time. And when things don’t go his way, he begs? What an ass!

I also loved “Silver” Star, and how she was easily dispatched by Azure Avenger. It’s one of the basic rules of storytelling that if you announce that the hero is invincible, you have to show him doing things that justify that assertion. A lot of writers seem to forget that obvious fact.

However, Max get the upper hand! With an hostage situation! I really can’t believe that someone as powerful and experimented like Azure Avenger could fall for this, but it worked!

And the idea of just constraining Azure Avenger (maybe she could easily get off those handcuffs) was great! I would do the same if I were a supervillain myself!

The ending seems a little strange, how on earth a great heroine could have fallen so easily? But the point is, she has, and now the plot would advance!

All this is just to say you that I love this story: I had always thought that trapping a superheroine by menacing her friends is one of my favorite fetishes, and here you had mastered that plot! I love your work, and I am anxious to see next issue!

PD:

@ Dear Trishbot: Kakyo001 has a point: If you wipe someone’s memory and install a program, I think that is a death sentence. That is the point of sci fi: these things are no toys, but deadly serious devices with serious consequences.

@ Dear Kakyo001, Trishbot has a point: The reason we all love comics is that no killing is permanent… except Uncle Ben, of course. The author can always manage to restore a character to where he was, backup memories or not…

Great work!
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Re: Business Ethics

Postby Ghosthand » November 10th, 2012, 4:55 pm

Something I notice is that this seems to be the first appearance of Azure Avenger. This leaves her, for right now, in limbo as her story is under development. Only by the end of her first story will we know if she is hero, villian, or victem. It could go any way and dozens of levels in between.

Since Andrea is a very well known bussiness woman her total dissapearance is highly unlikely. She will be returning to her bussiness in some capasity or another. But her alter ego is another story.

Senario 1, She defeats Max and returns triumphant as a new heroine for Metrobay. Not likely, or not 100% win. This would forever change the statu quo in Metrobay and remove a lot of story telling.

Senario 2, Max turns her into his slave and she returns to her company as a puppet under his control and Azure Avenger dissapears. Very possible and probably something Max would do. But it's kind of a bland ending to a new character. I would prefer something more interesting like...

Senario 3, Max converts her to his side, under his control of course, and her alrer ego is a new villianess while her company joins with APEX and becomes a even bigger threat to the heroines of Metrobay.

Senario 4-infinity, anything in between. It was suggested that this could be the death of her character but in actuality, since she is a new character, this is just the beginning.
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Re: Business Ethics

Postby sohta123 » November 10th, 2012, 7:08 pm

Scenario 5 - Max wins, she is his puppet running her(his) company, and she joins the heroines as his mole. :mrgreen:
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Re: Business Ethics

Postby Trishbot » November 12th, 2012, 4:08 pm

This is some great discussion, guys! This is precisely the sort of thing I was hoping you guys would talk about. Oooh, I wanna spill the ending so badly... I'll just say that some of you guys have some brilliant ideas, and some are closer to the truth than others.
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Re: Business Ethics

Postby hopelessbttrying » November 12th, 2012, 4:45 pm

Trishbot wrote:
kakyo001 wrote:up until now your cover-work has never been completely misleadig thus I expect her to become a victim of the nano leash ... and there lies my problem ^^

the concept of the nano leash (from my point of view) is a death sentence... the mind of the victim is changed into a program and left in APEX's care (and we know that they'll never temper with it *wink*) and the physical body is left as a husk under full control of APEX's main computer... the nano leash can't be removed as easily as a collar (if at all) and the mind probly won't be able to take control of the body again (if the mind is left in a state that allows it to return to its original state)

(even after years of reading comics I still hate to see characters getting killed off... ^^; )


I don't know. Sometimes characters "evolve" in unexpected ways. For example, Ginger Monroe is no longer Jane Baker. Her old identity is gone, yet you would be hard-pressed to say that Ginger isn't an interesting and unique and involving character in her own right. Similarly, you could very well claim characters like Mechana, Fluffy, and Lady Payback are "dead" because all of them have either been brainwashed or evolved in ways that are entirely different than their starting personalities.

However, beyond that, I and many of the other creators have this philosophy: "nothing is permanent". There is a loophole to every plan, a flaw in every design, and a way out of any issue. We spend too much time making characters we like to just toss them away, and if we truly want to "free" a heroine, there is nothing that can stop us. On the inverse, if we like them where they are for the time being, we leave them there.

I won't spoil Andrea's fate, but I'll merely say that I am FAR FAR FAR from done exploring her personality, her relationships, her loves and desires, and her plans for the future. She's got plenty of character development left in this story and future stories.

There's still a few more issues left to this tale, and what you might think is "the end" in an issue or two is actually not quite the ending. It's not until I say it is, at least. Andrea and Max's little game of outwitting each other hasn't wrapped up yet, but I can promise that both of them are going to be affected by the end.
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Re: Business Ethics

Postby hopelessbttrying » November 12th, 2012, 4:49 pm

I have to side with kakyao001 the leash maybe a good idea but there is no way around it you've destroy what made that person a person as for nothing is permanent well after seeing characters that have died many times keep coming back kinda loses the "loss fact"
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Re: Business Ethics

Postby sohta123 » November 12th, 2012, 7:20 pm

I like the idea of characters evolving. Some good evolve to bad and some bad to good.
Take Catwoman for example. She started out being written pretty much as a pure villain but over the course of time has become an animal activist/ jewel thief/ quasi-heroine. She's certainly more interesting now.
Magneto is another good example. Instead of just a villain he's become the champion of mutant-kind. And it works out well because of his philosophical differences with Professor Xaiver.

I know anything can happen in comics but I have a hard time with writers that use 'easy-outs' to reset the story or have the heros win. Case in point of a time when the Avengers were getting whipped and Henry Pym pulls a weapon out of a pocket universe to beat the bad guys. I'm sorry but I have a hard time swallowing that kind of story flaw.
So here if a character is said to be mind wiped 'permanently' (ie. like a computer) then I take that as such. Not saying you can't bring them back but it needs to make sense how you pull that off, or the person brought back is not really the same person but something similar (I'm more ok with that).

I also really hate it when something 'permanent' happens to a character and the very next story they are fine. At least let it stay that way for a long while to make it 'feel' permanent.
That's what I'm enjoying right now with Valient Girl is that she's been under Belinda's control for a good while it makes re-reading the stories more enjoyable. (I'm really hoping that Kristen joins her for a while as well).

Anyway, here's to great storytelling. Keep it up.
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Re: Business Ethics

Postby xarielx » November 17th, 2012, 8:50 am

sohta123 wrote:I like the idea of characters evolving. Some good evolve to bad and some bad to good.
Take Catwoman for example. She started out being written pretty much as a pure villain but over the course of time has become an animal activist/ jewel thief/ quasi-heroine. She's certainly more interesting now.
Magneto is another good example. Instead of just a villain he's become the champion of mutant-kind. And it works out well because of his philosophical differences with Professor Xaiver.

I know anything can happen in comics but I have a hard time with writers that use 'easy-outs' to reset the story or have the heros win. Case in point of a time when the Avengers were getting whipped and Henry Pym pulls a weapon out of a pocket universe to beat the bad guys. I'm sorry but I have a hard time swallowing that kind of story flaw.
So here if a character is said to be mind wiped 'permanently' (ie. like a computer) then I take that as such. Not saying you can't bring them back but it needs to make sense how you pull that off, or the person brought back is not really the same person but something similar (I'm more ok with that).

I also really hate it when something 'permanent' happens to a character and the very next story they are fine. At least let it stay that way for a long while to make it 'feel' permanent.
That's what I'm enjoying right now with Valient Girl is that she's been under Belinda's control for a good while it makes re-reading the stories more enjoyable. (I'm really hoping that Kristen joins her for a while as well).

Anyway, here's to great storytelling. Keep it up.


I second this, it's great to see a break in the monotony of superheroine stories thus far with something that can have disastrous consequences. Like a poster had mentioned earlier, I believe there to be a dichotomy within the Metrobay universe where we have certain characters that are allowed a semi-permanent state of mind control, many of the Graybots, Valient Grrl and some that are untouchable. Bridging this gap with some kind of new heroine that we know to be permanently enslaved from her introduction is a positive I believe. Having the Azure Avenger as a plant within the Squad would make for some VERY interesting scenarios. I don't believe Belinda should add more to her guards, she's untouchable for the most part, having some kind of balancing act to her menagerie and Max's collection of girls would be great.
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Re: Business Ethics

Postby Tony » November 17th, 2012, 10:26 am

xarielx wrote:Having the Azure Avenger as a plant within the Squad would make for some VERY interesting scenarios. I don't believe Belinda should add more to her guards, she's untouchable for the most part, having some kind of balancing act to her menagerie and Max's collection of girls would be great.


There's already a plant in the squad and no stories have been written about it since it happened.
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Re: Business Ethics

Postby dumbtime » November 17th, 2012, 2:41 pm

I have a feeling with Max, it will be something more sinister than a plant in the squad.
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Re: Business Ethics

Postby Trishbot » November 28th, 2012, 11:06 pm

Hey everyone! I hope you all have been enjoying good Thanksgiving leftovers! But, fret not, we still have more helpings of mind control naughtiness to go around! Get it while it's hot!

Faced with the difficult decision of facing Max Indeks head-on and risking his mindless, obedient slaves grievous harm, Azure Avenger reluctantly has chosen to lower her guard and allow the vile villain to lead her deeper into his lair of wicked machines, mad science, and evil experiments.... of which Azure will become the latest test subject! Can the virtuous vixen find a way to escape and free herself and Max's captives, or shall she join them in mindless servitude? Find out in "Business Ethics" Issue 6, only at MCComix!

Catch it here: http://www.mccomix.com/members/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=59527

Thanks for reading everyone!
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Re: Business Ethics

Postby hopelessbttrying » November 29th, 2012, 12:23 pm

Now I know why I quit subscribing the good characters are so stupid if she was so good his neck would have been snapped before he could utter a word but no I'll submit didn't she know what was going to happen
this goes for all the rest as much as they're missed treated you'd think
1) Apex would be a smoking ruin
2) they'd hang up their capes after all they are just super hero bimbos
3) they'd move away because they never win and no winning isn't snapping out of it
Well that's it for the rant
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Re: Business Ethics

Postby Trishbot » November 29th, 2012, 2:04 pm

hopelessbttrying wrote:Now I know why I quit subscribing the good characters are so stupid if she was so good his neck would have been snapped before he could utter a word but no I'll submit didn't she know what was going to happen
this goes for all the rest as much as they're missed treated you'd think
1) Apex would be a smoking ruin
2) they'd hang up their capes after all they are just super hero bimbos
3) they'd move away because they never win and no winning isn't snapping out of it
Well that's it for the rant


*sigh* You literally have no idea. There is one more issue still coming. This story is not over. This matter isn't settled.

And I PROMISE that victory isn't going to be simply "snapping out of it".

This is also a comic-book world, and we don't necessarily subscribe to the rules of realism. It's the same reason the Legion of Doom could terrorize the Superfriends every episode instead of doing one crime and then rotting in prison for life. Most of us aren't out to write the next "Watchmen" or gritty "Dark Knight Returns". We're simply having fun with our fetish fuel and trying to make it enjoyable and interesting to read. We're more Adam West than Christopher Nolan, if that makes sense.
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